Topic: Two-Seater Gunnery, Weapon Mods, Burning Spads

This is a repository of useful information from pilot flight reports etc to assist with pilot development. Please keep replies relevant to the subject line of the thread. When creating a new thread, please title the subject "Topics:" followed by brief descriptor of the topic(s) involved in your posting. This helps readers find information most useful/of interest to them.
Post Reply
User avatar
J5_Matthias
Leutnant
Leutnant
Posts: 456
Joined: 14 May 2012, 16:28
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia, United States of America

Topic: Two-Seater Gunnery, Weapon Mods, Burning Spads

Unread post by J5_Matthias » 29 May 2012, 14:12

Due to changes in the Weapon Mod patch with the way the guns work, bullet speed changes, and the general increases in the dispersion and increased rate of fire all guns, this old sticky has been edited and updated as of - 7/7/2012

General Observations.

1. Sight zoom no longer changes aiming accuracy. You can be zoomed in or out all the way and the accuracy of the weapon does not change. What DOES change is your field of view and the level of precise control you have over where the muzzle is pointing.

Another MAJOR change - it appears that rear guns are now calibrated to the convergence you set in the hanger just like forward guns. So your default aiming point will NOT be on the crosshairs at point blank range if you run with your guns at a guns at a 125-175m convergence.

The rings on the gun sights should still be used as guides for deflection shooting. This is more important than ever since the dispersion increase. l still like 3 or 6 ticks back from full zoom depending on how "tunnel vision like" I feel I can afford my sight to be (possibility of out of vision attack by other bandits). When I'm wounded or I want to be very precise, I now go full zoom in.

2. The maximum upper limt for shooting at an incoming bandit should now be 200m. MGs should still definitely not waste time shooting at climbing targets high on the horizon.

However... the 20mm becker with that interesting sight and the nice shell arc... well... lets just save that for a little farther down...

3. Shoot the target shooting you. Do not waste time pounding away at a bandit who just broke off to circle around you when there's another about to come in. Stay on the biggest threat. The key here is deterrance, and breaking a shooting bandit off his attack run will keep you alive that much longer.

4. If you cannot maintain a deflection lead on a target as you shoot, point the gun farther ahead and try to make him walk into your bullets. With the higher rates of fire and dispersion, this works much better than before.

5. Always go for the engine, if the enemy is square on your tailplane and you're also the pilot, kick the rudder a little and shake him off to one side OR tell the pilot to shift the tail so you can shoot. Dispersion makes deliberately trying to shoot out wing control surfaces a real pita. And don't even try to shoot around the edge of the tailplane with a 20mm... Can you say "I've lost all my elevator/rudder control cables" 10x fast?

6. Do NOT clamp down on the trigger. You'll now PERMANENTLY warp your barrel(s) so your gun shoots even more inaccurately than it already does. Short bursts, aimed, precise.

Sight Aiming.

Now depends heavily on the range that you calibrate your gun convergence. The diagram I created before still gives the general idea but everyone's will be different based on their convergence settings. Use the rings on the gunsights and the directional speed of the target vs your plane - they're now your best guides for estimating the necessary lead.

but the general principle below still applies (even though the ranges are now wrong)
Image

20mm Becker.

This is not an automatic weapon. Let me say that again. This is not an automatic weapon. You must have the discipline to shoot it like a semi-automatic in order to use it effectively. 1 shot only per trigger pull. The reload is 8 seconds.

You can use the serious arc on this weapon to shoot at climbing enemies above the horizon at ~150 - 175 yards using the outer circle of the sight. Fire at that distance only if several enemies are some what clumped up for an attack run together. Otherwise, open fire only at 100 yards or less. Coordinate with your pilot to drop speed and make the enemy overshoot/get close so that you can take your shot - preferably also while spoiling his aim.

AP Round Loadout:
Pros:
- If it hits the engine, the plane is pretty much done.
Cons:
- If it hits anything else, damage is "meh". Engine hits are somewhat "lucky" to say the least with the amount of dispersion on the Becker, even at point blank range.
- Also, you can't usually see when or where it hits easily other than the plane shudders from the impact.

HE Round Loadout:
Pros:
- 2 or 3 hits to a wing and the plane is almost a surefire gonner.
- Hits to the wing are much more likely than hits on the engine due to the dispersion.
- When an HE round hits it gives off either a huge puff of white smoke or a large orange flash, or a wing just rips off. There's no guessing involved.
- In a Gotha nose turret, it can turn the Gotha into a serious ground attack threat. Not sure on balloons but I can't see why not.
Cons:
- Hits to the engine can sttill cause radiator/oil and or fuel damage.
But it's generally not going to bring them down unless there's already collateral damage on the wings.

Mixed HE/AP Loadout:
Just no... - why would you handicap yourself like that? You'll have AP wasted going through wings and HE wasted hitting engines..

Never risk shooting a Becker from the Gotha nose at an enemy in the rear. One accidental high dispersion shot can take your rear gunner out, or sever your tailplane control cables completely, or rip one of your engines completely off of it' s mount with a prop strike. Work with your pilot to get the bandits to overshoot or attack from directly forwards so you have targets.

Twin Parabellum MG
Unfortunately I think people will be disappointed with this weapon, though I am honestly not. It is not "instant death" - despite putting out more lead than a mechanical pencil factory - It is only twice as effective as a single MG.

What I'm trying to say is that the gunner makes this weapon good, not the other way around. You can't give a new guy this gun and make him an instant killer. If you have a gunner with a 2% accuracy rate, he still hits 2% of the time but essentially will do twice as much damage as with a single MG (2x the bullets fired so 2x the hits). On the other hand a gunner accurate at 20% with twice as many bullets on target will be a lot more effective.

Also, this gun has a 20 second reload. So, trigger discipline is required or else the plane will be caught with it's pants down during a reload.

So it can be worth the weight and the risk if you seriously know how to use it. Otherwise, stick with the single MG and you have a much more reliable defense.

AI Gunners
Never ever ever give AI gunners control over the 20mm or the Parabellum MG. Ever! If you're carrying one for your own use as you autopilot, then make sure that you set the AI to cease fire using the new gunner commands whenever an enemy plane approaches. They will waste the precious 20mm shots firing full auto and have no concept of trigger discipline, or reload risk on the Parabellum, and their accuracy sucks too much to be worth it. You're way better off with single MGs.

Burning Spads
When a Spad comes in on you, aim specifically towards the lower right (his left) side the engine as he gets close enough for that kind of accuracy. You're very likely to not only cause the normal prop strikes but also puncture his fuel tank and the engine at the same time. You have a decent chance of causing him to quickly catch fire. You might even get lucky and cause him to detonate in mid air. I was able to get this to occur back to back on several AI Spads on their attack runs. Whether this also works surefire on other aircraft I have not tested.
Last edited by J5_Matthias on 17 Jul 2012, 17:03, edited 3 times in total.
J5_Matthias
Jagdstaffel 5
ImageImageImage

User avatar
J5_Vorlander
Oberfähnrich
Oberfähnrich
Posts: 808
Joined: 31 Jan 2012, 05:09
Location: South Africa

Unread post by J5_Vorlander » 29 May 2012, 15:52

Salute matthias,

Thanx for the information. I know that you spend some time and thought into it. Great work.
J5_Vorlander
Fähnrich
Jagdstaffel 5

Image

User avatar
J5_Schneider
Oberleutnant
Oberleutnant
Posts: 672
Joined: 03 May 2007, 00:52
Location: Chateau Boistrancourt, France
Contact:

Unread post by J5_Schneider » 29 May 2012, 23:39

Good stuff --- I will try it out.
Salute!
Image Image

User avatar
J5_Bäumer
Adjutant
Adjutant
Posts: 2126
Joined: 03 Jun 2006, 08:07
Location: Boistrancourt, France
Contact:

Unread post by J5_Bäumer » 30 May 2012, 01:33

Very good summary, Mathias. Thanks for sharing. If it is OK with you, I'm sure some of this will be useful in the observer curriculum. Please let us know if you'd like for this to be able to be used in that context.
Prosit!

Image
ImageImage

User avatar
J5_Wolf
Leutnant
Leutnant
Posts: 497
Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 22:48
Location: Galloway, NJ

Unread post by J5_Wolf » 30 May 2012, 01:53

Hitting the Camel and the Spad in the lower front of the engine will cause the fire. It only takes a few rounds to get the job done too! :wink:
J5_Wolf, Ltn.
"Know your enemy and use it against him."

Image Image
Image-Image

User avatar
J5_Matthias
Leutnant
Leutnant
Posts: 456
Joined: 14 May 2012, 16:28
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia, United States of America

Unread post by J5_Matthias » 30 May 2012, 04:36

J5_Bäumer wrote:Very good summary, Mathias. Thanks for sharing. If it is OK with you, I'm sure some of this will be useful in the observer curriculum. Please let us know if you'd like for this to be able to be used in that context.
Sure it can be used for that. I can't see why that would be a bad thing.
J5_Matthias
Jagdstaffel 5
ImageImageImage

J5_Berger

Unread post by J5_Berger » 30 May 2012, 23:03

Good job! Now I can finally see where I was going wrong the other night.

User avatar
J5_Sturm
Hauptmann
Hauptmann
Posts: 802
Joined: 15 Sep 2006, 01:13
Location: South East, South Carolina

Unread post by J5_Sturm » 31 May 2012, 13:46

I will set up a few empty grape bottles and give this a shot. Thanks for the info Matt.
S*A*L*U*T*E ;o)
Herr Sturm
Image
Image
Image
ImageImage

Post Reply